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458 Win./.458 Lott

I offer information on these cartridges as bear stoppers only. I don't have illusions of shooting caribou at 300 yards in the open tundra, or deer hunting in the brush--although either would do it if the shooter did his part. In fact these would be fun cartridges to crawl through the dark timber with in search of a big bull elk.  

I recently read an article in the Kodiak Daily Mirror, the local newspaper for the City of Kodiak, which talked about what biologists for the Kodiak Wildlife Refuge use for brown bear protection when they go into the boonies. They take a 12 gauge shotgun shooting rubber bullets and a .458 Win. That isn't what they suggest other people take, that is what they personally take. I'm assuming they use the 12 gauge as a non-lethal means of deterring a bear if it is just a little too close, and the .458 for real trouble. Sounds reasonable

 

There is a bit of debate between the .458 Win. fans and the .416 Rem. fans as to which is a better stopping cartridge for bears.  The .416 shoots fast with its superior case capacity and 400 gr. bullets open up just fine. The .458 has a larger frontal diameter although some heavy weight 500 gr. bullets don't open up real well reducing the effects of the larger initial diameter.  Case capacity is also small enough that good velocities require heavily compressed loads or lighter bullet weights and factory loads aren't as fast as they could be.

 

More and more companies are touting .458 bullets in the mid 400's as the best weight for the Winchester, but I'm not sure what I think yet. Somewhere this last year I read an article on .458 Barnes X bullets and it showed recovered bullets of different weights. The 500 gr. version didn't impress me with its expansion, but the 450 looked good--I don't care for anything lighter.  Perhaps the 450 is the way to go, or maybe another brand of 500 gr. soft points would perform better than the X.

 

Of course the .458 Lott solves a lot of the problems .458 owners have been reporting. This is basically a stretched version of the Winchester round utilizing a full length .375 H&H type case. Velocities are up, compressed powder problems are way down, and forming cases is a piece of cake, especially now that .416 Remington cases are available. There is no free lunch however and the price to pay is recoil. If you are moving big bullets at high velocity something is going to push back. This is one of the rifles that I'd prefer to shoot standing up, and I'll gladly sight in a .458 Lott leaning over a post--but not off the bench. I'm just not tough enough without some sort of sissy bag of lead shot or some other recoil absorbing device. Shooting a big 45 prone should also prove to be on the brisk side of the spectrum, especially in a rifle slightly light for the caliber. Of course I'm not going to use such a gun for plinking prairie dogs so 50 yard groups of a couple of inches are all I'm after.

 

Having to pick between the two cartridges isn't real hard for me: the Lott is clearly the winner. Downloading the Lott to Winchester or 45-70 velocities would be a piece of cake if need be, and in a pinch Winchester cartridges can be safely fired in the Lott chamber. That isn't some crazy idea of mine, it was actually part of the reason the Lott is designed the way it is, and the main difference between it and other stretched .458's with blown out shoulders.

 

Of course a major advantage of the Winchester version is the availability of factory cartridges. Here in Kodiak there are two or three places in town where you can pick up a box of 500 gr. ammo if need be.

 

Advice and Information from Øyvind Hannisdal (a fellow .458 Lott fan)

I use a standard RCBS .458 Winchester die set. New .416 Rem brass chamber easily in my Brno so all I have to do is neck up, shorten to 2.8”, load up and fireform. I then use the resizing die turned up .3” in the press. Easy and convenient, and it gets better:  

Daniel Moratal sent me a batch of once-fired 416 cases. They did NOT fit in the Lott chamber, full length resizing was necessary and I thought I had a big problem. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained, so I necked them up, trimmed them to Lott length and had a go with the 458 Win die. Imagine my surprise when the Winny die did the job perfectly! I can’t imagine why the Win die has room for the longer Lott case, but I’m not complaining! If you decide to use an RCBS Win set, I would recommend the addition of a tapered expander plug. Especially new 416 brass has given me some trouble in the neck up process. The rather blunt original plug isn't ideal for the 416 to 458 expansion, it tends to work loose and create some weird looking, slightly off-set necks. Not a huge problem of course, an extra run through the resizing die and fireforming sort out any odd shapes, but a proper expander makes life easier. I’m sure a 22” barrel will be perfect for your rifle. I don’t think you should worry about any significant loss of performance.

In Jack Lott’s original article on the .458 Lott he mentions that David Miller’s load for a pre-64 with a 22” barrel was 84 grains of IMR 4320 for just over 2300 fps. Just make sure the rifle is well balanced and that your gunsmith is extra careful with the magazine and feed ramp modifications. The long, straight Lott round is perhaps not the best candidate for perfect feeding in a bolt action. On the other hand, the Remington action has a reputation for being very adaptable and forgiving in this regard. Oh, and an extension rear scope mount is a good idea!

 I use cast bullets primarily to cut cost. My brother casts them for me (I don’t care much for lead fume-induced diseases myself:-) With the 525 gr. MIMEK bullet and N140 powder (which I get at a huge discount through the gun club. National Match powder, you see), my Lott loads are very inexpensive. Accuracy is more than acceptable (1.5-2 MOA) and I wouldn't hesitate for a second to use them for hunting. OK, a 700 kg Brown Bear might make me grab for my Woodleighs! I also use cast 405 gr. 45-70 designs for light plinking. I've made some recoilless loads with 25 gr. of N110+Dacron filler. Great fun!

 I thought I might contribute with a few loadings from Europe. I suppose that Vihtavuori powder’s a bit rare in your part of the world, but that can’t be

helped:-). The loads have been worked out at the Belgian Firearms Proofhouse of Liège with a 24” pressure barrel and radial copper crushing system. The velocities correspond very well with my own results.

Load                     Projectile              MV  Pressure

73 gr. IMR 3031 400 gr. Speer SP  2,218 fps 33,547 CUP

90 gr. N135 400 gr. Swift SP 2,520 fps  48,645 CUP

92 gr. N540 400 gr. Barnes X 2,484 fps  47,573 CUP

95 gr. N540 400 gr. Woodleigh SP 2,585 fps 49,327 CUP

83 gr. N140 500 gr. Hornady SP 2,200 fps  46,034 CUP

80 gr. N135 500 gr. Hornady SP 2,205 fps 52,982 CUP

80 gr. N135 500 gr. Swift SP 2,142 fps  52,692 CUP

88 gr. N540 500 gr. Swift SP 2,303 fps  52,402 CUP

To this I might add some of my other favorite loads (25” Brno barrel, 416 Rem cases) :

75 gr. N133 400 gr. Remington SP 2215 fps light practice load

76 gr. N140 525 gr. MIMEK cast 2084 fps heavy practice load

84 gr. N140 500 gr. Hornady SP 2220 fps one for Africa?

I can get H-4895 over here, and that seems to be one of the very best powders for the Lott.

My initial goal for the elongated .458 was to duplicate the performance of the old .450, .465 and .470 Nitro Expresses, i.e. 500 gr. at 2150-2250 in a 6+1 capacity package and with moderate pressures. My impression is that the Lott is pretty much maxed out at 2300-2350 and I want to leave a margin for error in the hot Tanzanian sun (going after buff in 2002). Now I’m leaning towards a solution using 450 gr. Barnes or Swift softs and Barnes solids loaded to original .416 Rigby velocity, 2370 fps, giving the gun more all-round potential. The slightly lighter recoil will help me utilize the improved trajectory.

I have not conducted a thorough penetration test with .458 bullets yet, mainly because I don’t have enough bullets. So far I've used the Hornady 500 gr. SN, Rem 405 gr. SP , Woodleigh 400 gr. PP, Speer 400 gr. FN and the aforementioned cast bullets. The problem is of course cost: the premium products from Woodleigh, Barnes and Swift are up to $ 2.- apiece, while the Trophy Bonded and Speer AGS start at $ 5.-. My plan is to collect bullets a box or two at a time, and test them as I go along. A more comprehensive test of .458 bullets similar to the 30-06 test we did is still at least a year away. I have tested the ones I've got, and will say this: The 500 gr. Hornady is more than soft enough for moose, the 400 gr. .45-70 bullets commit suicide at Lott speed (3” penetration in paper) and the 400 gr. Woodleigh is AWESOME!! Loaded to 2400 fps the latter expands to 25-30 mm, retains 90% weight and penetration in wet paper is equal to the 300gr./375 Woodleigh. Reports from moose hunters using it in the .458 Win confirm the test results. The retained bullets where found lodging under the skin on the far side and about 50% of the bullets penetrated completely.

Returning to the Barnes X bullets, I have an article from Rifle Shooter (which I think you've read?) showing the expansion of the 500 gr., 400 gr. and 300 gr. hitting the test medium at 2,160 fps, 2,333 fps and 2,879 fps respectively. The 500 gr. is about half way to full expansion, the 400 gr. is picture perfect while the 300 gr. has lost its petals and is reduced to a short “button”. Based on this (admittedly very sketchy data) I would say that a muzzle velocity of 2300 is on the verge of being insufficient for the .458” X. At 100 yards the impact velocity will be 2,150 fps, and expansion will probably be inconsistent at best, especially with a lung hit. For a bear defense rifle where shots per definition are at close range I suppose the 500 gr. will work just fine, but again my choice would be the 450 gr. for more velocity and more violent expansion.

 

My doubts aside, it’s tempting to draw comparisons to A-Square’s Lion Load concept; extreme expansion and fragmentation on soft skinned dangerous game, although a 200 kg lion is quite different from a 600-700 kg bear. I think maybe the 400 gr. Woodleigh with its COMBINATION of rapid expansion, huge diameter, high retained weight, indestructibility and relatively deep penetration could be perfect for the big bears. The same goes for the 400 and 450 gr. Trophy Bonded and Swift. I am a fan of the Barnes X, but I wonder if the bonded core bullets might be more adaptable to the bear protection scenario? Oh well, just food for thought on a Friday night.

Re. Penetration with solids:

Allow me to quote some more from Terry Wieland’s “The Big 450s” article, where he tested different bullets in his .450 Ackley.

‘A 400-grain Barnes naval bronze homogenous solid went in a 2,330 fps and penetrated 35 inches in a straight line, leaving a perfect tunnel.

An African Grand Slam tungsten-core solid (500 grains, 2314 fps) went 44 inches (wet paper) but veered slightly and hit the backstop of three-quarter-inch plywood sideways. The 600-grain Barnes solid started at 2030 fps, bored 35 inches through the newsprint, veered down, exited through the plywood, then through the 2x4 frame into the hillside. Finally, a 500-grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid left the muzzle at a surprising 2,450, blasted a tunnel straight as a die through 44 inches of newsprint, bored right through the three-quarter-inch plywood backstop, utterly destroyed the first brick that was bracing it and smashed the second, destroying itself in the process. What's left of that bullet should be buried with full military honors. If the bricks hadn't been there, it might still be going.'

For comparison, the 500 gr. X penetrated 28 inches, 400 X 23 inches, 465 gr. Dead Tough factory load at 2,340 went 25 inches (90% weight retention) and the 500 gr. Hornady RN at 2,370 penetrated 23 inches (85% retention)

Penetration

This doesn't have much to do with 99% of the hunting situations we'll ever face, but here is a little trivia that is somewhat interesting. (thanks to shooting star for the article) Jack Lott wrote a piece that mentioned a penetration test where the .458" cartridge bearing his name would penetrate 29 1-1/2" Douglas fir blocks, while the .458 Winny would only do 20. This is probably with 2,300 fps and 2,000 fps respectively.  That is a significant difference!