Very Quick Lessons

Piedmontese for English Speaking People

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Lesson 8

Piedmontese Grammar


Pronouns (2nd part)

With this page we finish the quick speach about piedmontese pronouns. The remaining types of pronoun do not show particular difficulties. They are the demonstrative (dimostrativ), relative (relativ), generical interrogative (anterogativ genrich), indefinite (andefin). They are the corresponding pronouns of the adjectives that we've seen, when the entity, they are referred to, is not expressed. So we will refer also to the preceding parts. Of course, as usual, the complete list of them can be found in dictionaries. We notice that for relative pronouns, in Piedmontese the Syntax is quite particular and different from the italian one (see the related section). We recall that in Piedmontese "pronoun" = "përnm".

Demonstrative pronouns

We recall that often the demonstrative adjectives make use of the particles s, l, la which follow the substantive the adjective is referred to. This is true also for demonstrative pronouns, but since there is not a substantive, these particles follow the pronoun itself, which is the "substitute" of the substantive. In this case the particle is connected to the pronoun with an hyphen (always, when the pronoun ends by consonant).
There are some differences, and some more items, with respect the corresponding Adjectives. These pronouns can be subdivided into pronouns referred to person, and referred to thing. Also in this case, as for adjectives, we have three classes according to the position of the referred item with respect the speaker and the listener. They translate the english forms This, this one, that, that one ... etc. We call group A the pronouns related to an item close to the speaker, group B the pronouns related to an item close to the listener, group C the pronouns related to an item far from both speaker and listener. If the referred item is something abstract or is time, the observations are vaild that we did about demonstrative adjectives.
We said that they are subdivided into two classes. The first is : referred to person (d person-a) . The second is : referred to things (d csa). We show these two groups subdivided into two tables, and then we will do some examples.We continue to refer also to italian pronouns

Related to person

A
Engl. Masculine Feminine
This
This one
cost , col s , sto s , cost s , chiel s
this one is working = cost s a travaja
costa , cola s , sta s , costa s , chila s
this one is working = chila s a travaja.
These
These ones
costi , coj s , sti s , costi s , lor s
these ones are working = lor s a travajo
coste , cole s , coste s , lor s
these ones are working = ste s a travajo.
B
Engl. Masculine Feminine
This
This one
That
That one
col l , chiel l
tell that one to come = d a chiel l d vn
cola l , chila l
tell that one to come = d a chila l d vn
These
These ones
Those
Those ones
coj l , lor l
tell those one to come = d a lor l d vn
cole l , lor l
tell those one to come = d a cole l d vn
C
Engl. Masculine Feminine
That
That one
col , col l , chiel l
I will call that one = mi i ciamrai col l
cola , cola l , chila l
I will call that one = mi i ciamrai cola l
Those
Those ones
coj , coj l , lor l
I will call those ones = mi i ciamrai coj l
cole , cole l , lor l
I will call those ones = mi i ciamrai cole l

Related to thing

There are pronouns that, being quite general, are invariant with respect gender and number. They indicate a generic this, that like in the sentence this (that) is what I know.. These pronouns are:
sn , soss (this) that indicates something near to the speaker (throw away this = campa via sn)
ln , lol (that) that indicates something near to the listener (throw away that = campa via ln)
ln , lol (that) that indicates something far from both (we will throw away that = i camperoma via lol)
We note that lol and lol can also be found in the form ln-l and ln-l This form is not so usual, but it is correct in the same way.
Then, when the pronouns are referred to specific, identified objects, the following table is valid:

A
Engl. Masculine Feminine
This
This one
cost-s , sto-s
I prefer this one = i preferisso sto-s
costa-s , sta-s
I prefer this one = i preferisso sta-s.
These
These ones
costi-s , sti-s
I prefer these one = i preferisso sti-s.
coste-s , ste-s
I prefer these one = i preferisso ste-s....
B
Engl. Masculine Feminine
This
This one
That
That one
col, col-l
I prefer that one = i preferisso col-l
cola, cola-l
I prefer that one = i preferisso cola-l
These
These ones
Those
Those ones
coj, coj-l
I prefer those ones = i preferisso coj-l
cole, cole-l
I prefer those ones = i preferisso cole-l
C
Engl. Masculine Feminine
That
That one
col, col-l
I prefer that ones = i preferisso col-l
cola, cola-l
I prefer that ones = i preferisso cola-l
Those
Those ones
coj, coj-l
I prefer those ones = i preferisso coj-l
cole, cole-l
I prefer those ones = i preferisso cole-l

We note, as a difference between English and Piedmontese, that sometimes the piedmontese pronominal locution ln che translates the english "what" in sentences of the type: "What I cannot understand is..." that becomes "Ln che i capisso nen a l'..."
Another particular use of ln is in the idiom "a l' nen vire ln", that literally would be "it is not much that", but the actual meaning is "it is not so good", it is not well suited".
As usual we give some examples:
  • Ln che am pias nen a l' che chiel-s a veul che mi i fasa sn. = what I don't like is that this (fellow) wants me to do this
  • Con an p'd soss e 'n p'd lol rangioma coj che a rivo. =with a bit of this and a bit of that we will accomodate the ones (people) who come
  • Lor-l a fan mach d fum, mentre cost-s a travaja da mat. = Those (fellows) just do rumor, while this one works a lot
  • Sn a smija p bel che ln, ma cole ch'it dise ti a van nen bin. = This seems to be better than that, but those you speak about do not work
  • Soss a l' nen vaire ln, varda se lol a va mj. = This one is not so good, look if that one is better

Possessive pronouns


They are exactly as the correspondent Adjectives, with the only difference, in their use, that usually they want the article. Also the possessive pronouns, in piedmontese, match in gender and number with the owned thing(s) and not with the owner. The following is the usual table.

. singular masculine singular feminine... plural. masculine... plural masculine....
mine
l m
l m a l' mj = (the) mine is better

(something masculine singular)
la mia
la mia a fonsion-a nen = (the) mine it doesen't work

(something feminine singular)
ij m (mi)
ij m a son p ut = (the) mine are higher

(something masculine plural)
le mie
a son le mie = they are (the) mine

(something feminine plural)
yours
l t
l t a l' giun = (the) yours is yellow

(something masculine singular)
la toa
la toa a l' giuna = (the) yours is yellow

(something feminine singular)
ij t (ti)
ij t a son giun = (the) yours is yellow

(something masculine plural)
le toe
le toe a son coste = (the) yours are these ones

(something feminine plural)
his
hers
its
l s
l s a l' cost = (the) his/hers/its is this one

(something masculine singular)
la soa
la soa a l' nira = (the) his/hers/its is black

(something feminine singular)
ij s (si)
ij s a manco = (the) his/hers/its are missing

(something masculine plural)
le soe
le soe a son nire = (the) his/hers/its are black

(something feminine plural)
ours
l nstr
l nstr a l' l = the ours is there

(something masculine singular)
la nstra
la nstra a l' l = the ours is there

(something feminine singular)
ij nstri
ij nstri a son l = the ours are there

(something masculine plural)
le nstre
le nstre a son l = the ours are there

(something feminine plural)
yours
l vstr
l vstr a l' nen s = (the) yours is not here

(something masculine singular)
la vstra
la vstra a l' nen s = (the) yours is not here

(something feminine singular)
ij vstri
ij vstri a son nen s = (the) yours are not here

(something masculine plural)
le vstre
le vstre a son nen s = (the) yours are not here

(something feminine plural)
theirs
l s
l s a l' cost = (the) theirs is this one

(something masculine singular)
la soa
la soa a l' nira = (the) theirs is black

(something feminine singular)
ij s (si)
ij s a manco = (the) theirs are missing

(something masculine plural)
le soe
le soe a son nire = (the) theirs are black

(something feminine plural)

We note that the masculine plural series can also be used for indicating (as a noun) the parents. So:
ij mi = my father and mother, and sometimes, my family
ij ti = your father and mother, and sometimes, your family
ij si = his/her father and mother, and sometimes, his/her family
and so on.
Another note is that the third person singular and plural are equal, and are distinguished by the context. (not by the article, which is, of course, referred to what is owned).
We give here some examples of possessive pronouns, including also some possessive adjectives:
Your dog is good, the mine not so much = T can a l' bon, l m nen vaire
If it is not mine, it must be yours = Se a l' nen l m a deuv esse l t
your field is longer than ours = Vstr camp a l' p long dl nstr
His house is very high, but ours is larger = Soa ca a l' tant uta ma la nstra a l' p larga.
They do their own business, but you do the yours = Lor as fan s af, ma voiutri feve ij vstr.
We note that in the expressions governed by the verb "esse" = "to be" where the possessive pronoun is after the substantive it is referred to, and is separated from the latter by the verb, as in the sentence "This book is (the) mine", the possessive behaves as an adjective ("this book is my") and the translation will be "Sto lber a l' m". This is true also when the sentence is a direct consequence (as an answer) of the preceding sentence in which there is the substantive addressed by the pronoun, as in the case: "Whom is this book of? - It is (the) mine = ëd chi l'-lo sto lber? - A l' m. In these cases the use of the article is for underlining the property or unicity of the owned thing: in this case "sto lber a l' 'l m.

Relative pronouns


The Piedmontese has its own way to deal with these pronouns. We will see it step by step, comparing it also with the italian way.
In Piedmontese the pronoun "chi" corresponds to the italian "chi" and is used in the same way. In Emglish it corresponds to "who, whom" and sometimes "which", since it can be used both for subject or complement (some exceptions will be seen in Syntax).
  • Chi a ven s as treuva bin. = Who comes here feels well.
  • Chi it l'has vëdd a l' un bravm. = Who you saw is a good man
  • Ti it sas nen pr chi it travaje = You do not know for whom you are working
  • Gnun a s da chi a l' fit = Nobody knows whom it is made by
  • Chi 'd voiutri a va via ch'a vada ampressa = Which of you is going away, do it quickly
  • Chi ch'a l'ha dite ln a l' un gadan. = Who told you that is a stupid.
Here we note a first particularity: in the last sentence there is a "che (ch')" meaning "that", very often used in Piedmontese (it's a correct idiom, piedmontese syntax), giving a literal sense of who that told..... So the pronoun can be "chi che". This is not allowed in Italian
In Piedmontese the pronoun "che" corresponds to the italian "che" but it has a larger use, since it can be not only subject or object, but also other complements and it is often used without preposition. This could produce confusion. To avoid it, some redundant pronoun or adverb is added, and this produces very particular sentences, that are anyway perfectly clear. This is a subject for Sintax, and we will see it later. This pronoun can be used either referred to person, and in this case correspons to the english "who, that", or referred to thing, and in this case corresponds to the english "which, that". Examples:
  • La përson-a che a cor = the person who runs
  • La përson-a che it vëddes = the person who you see
  • La përson-a che it l'has parlje = the person to whom you spoke
  • L'm che i ancontro tuti ij d = the man whom I meet every day
  • La litra che it l'has mandane = the letter which you sent us
  • La csa che it weulw = the thing that you want.
A piedmontese relative pronoun which does not exist in Italian is dont, that in Italian sounds "di cui, del quale, in cui, nel quale, da cui, dal quale". In English the translation is whose and in which, from which. As a genitive is also the same of the corresponding french "dont" (different pronunciation). In Piedmontese, as we've seen the meaning is extended to all type of genitive and also to a complement of place. Here some examples:
  • La përson-a dont i ët parlo = the person of whom I speak to you
  • La përson-a dont la vitura a l' stita rob = the person whose car have been stolen
  • La sit dont i stago = the city in which I live
These pronouns ("chi, chi che, che, dont") are invariant in gender and number.

It is exceptional the use of "l qual, la qual, ij quaj, le quaj" (still corresponding to "who, whom, which, that"). These four pronouns are respectively masc. sing., femin. sing., masc. plur. and femin. plur.. They correspond to the italian ones "il quale, la quale, i quali, le quali".
These forms would allow all the complements, using the opportune preposition, but the piedmontese style is to avoid this use and it prefer to change the way of expressing the concept (as we said also above).
Another form for piedmontese relative pronouns can be considerd "col che, cola che, coj che, cole che, respectively masculine singular, feminine singular, masculine plural, feminine plural, corresponding to the italian forms colui che, colei che, coloro che respectively masculine singular, feminine singular, and plural both masc. and femin.. In English the form can be "he who, he whom, she who, she whom, they who, they whom". Indeed these piedmontese pronouns could be also considered as demonstrative pronouns, that assume a relative meaning by addition of the che.

We can consider also the translation of the english relative pronoun what as for example in the sentence "You can take what you want". In Italian this pronoun is translated into "che, che cosa". In Piedmontese the usual way of translating it is ln che, where we can note another demonstrative pronoun that acquires a relative meaning by adding a "che". Then can be used, for this pronoun, the expressions "cs, csa, cs che, csa che". The above sentence, in Piedmontese becomes: "It peule pij ln che it veule". Remembering that "che" is followed by a vowel, the correct writing is: "It peule pij ln ch'it veule". Some examples:
  • I capisso nen ln ch'it dise = I don't understand what you say
  • I capisso nen cs ch'a fasa la s = I don't understand what he is doing over there
  • It sas nen csa it deuve f = You don't know what you have to do

Here we give a series of examples, that cover the various cases (this is probably the most effective way for being clear):
  • The person (who) you know ... = La person-a che it conosse ....
  • The things that you say be correct = Le cse che it dise esse giuste.
  • The dog of which I told you = l can dont i l'hai parlate.
  • This is the reason for which i said it to you = Cost a l' l motiv (dl) prch i l'hai ditlo. 1
  • The sun, whose light is very strong, ... = l sol, dont l ciir a l' motobin frt, ....
  • The village which I come from = l pais da andova i ven-o. 2
  • The house in which i lived as a child = La c che i l'hai vivje da cit 3
  • The school from which i come = La scla dont i ven-o
Note 1) -
The sentence is re-arranged in a way, more natural in Piedmontese, that do not requires the relative pronoun
Note 2) -
Also in this case the Note 1) is valid, but here it is possible to use the pronoun "dont"
Note 3) -
In this case the correct sense is given by the pronoun "--je", referred to the home: literally the house that I live it when child
A final note: The pronoun "che", when is followed by a word beginning by vowel, is apostrophized and becomes ch'.

Generical interrogative pronouns

They don't have to be confused with personal interrogative pronouns. They are mainly directly derived from the relative pronouns, in interrogative sentences. The english forms are "Who?, whom?, what?, how much?, how many?" while in Italian they are "chi?, che cosa?, quale?, quanto?. In Piedmontese we have the pronouns chi?, chi che?, cs?, cs che?, csa? cosa che?, quant?, quanta?, quanti, quante?, qual?, quala?, quaj?, qual che?, etc.... , ln che?. The following table shows these pronouns and their use, then we will do some notes.
Piedmontese Italian English Examples
chi ... ? chi ... ? who ... ? , whom ... ? , whose ... ? who is coming? = chi a ven? = chi ven-lo?
to whom you give it? = a chi 't lo das?
chi che ... ? chi ... ? who ... ? , ... whom ... ? who thinks in that way? = chi ch'a la pensa parj?
whom did you see? = chi ch'it l'has vist?
cs ... ? , csa ... ? (c ... ?) cosa ... ? what ... ? what are you saying? = c 't dise? = cs dis-to?
Cs che ... ? , csa che ... ? che cosa ... ? what ... ? what did you do? = csa che it l'has fit?
Ln che ... ? cosa ... ? , che cosa ... ? what ... ? what do they wanted? = ln ch'a voro?
Quant ... ? quanto ... ? how much? how much do you want? = quant it veule? (related to masc. thing)
Quanta ... ? quanta ... ? how much? how much do you want of it? = quanta it na veule? (related to femin. thing)
Quanti ... ? quanti ... ? how many? how many do you want of them? = quanti it na veule? (related to masc. things)
Quante ... ? quante ... ? how many? how many do you want of them? = quante it na veule? (related to femin. things)
Qual (che) ... ? quale ... ? what ... ? , which ... ? which (of them) do you want? = qual che it veule? (masc. sing.)
Quala (che) ... ? quale ... ? what ... ? , which ... ? which (of them) do you want? = quala che it veule? (femin. sing.)
Quaj (che) ... ? quali ... ? what ... ? , which ... ? which (of them) do you want? = quaj che it veule? (plural)

Notes:
1) - In the last three lines there are pronouns that are vey few used (as for the relative pronouns), if used, they are nearly always in the form with the "che" added. Often they are substituted with a form making use of the demonstrative pronoun "col" ("that"), to which the "che" is added. So, for example, "which is yours?" can be "qual ch'a l' 'l t?", but more often "col ch'a l' 'l t?" and this is another example showing that the addition of the particle "che" gives a "relative" sense to the demonstrative pronouns.
2) - In current language often the pronoun "cs" becomes simply "c" for euphonical reasons, mainly if the following word starts by consonant.
3) - We notice that when the added particle "che" is used, the use of personal interrogative pronouns is not allowed.
4) - Of course, the pronouns related to quantity are not derived from relative pronouns, but from indefinite pronouns.

Indefinite pronouns


First we consider the pronoun s , s that is used as a subject in impersonal verbal voices (3rd person singular), and that, combined with the personal verbal pronoun, produces the particle as. So, expressions like They say, It is said, etc. can be translated into as dis.
Since logically this cannot be considered a personal pronoun (the sentence is said "impersonal"), it is classified, in these cases, as an indefinite pronoun.

Then we note that the most of the indefinite adjectives, when not associated to a noun, sometimes act as indefinite pronouns. Also in Piedmontese there is a mechanism like the english one for which, for example, the adjective "some" becomes the pronoun "someone". A piedmontese example con be the adjective "quich" that becomes the pronoun "quaidun". The table that we gave for indefinite adjectives is also valid for some of the pronouns. We report here a list of indefinite pronouns, in order to give a view of the main voices and produce some examples. As usual, these pronouns, and all the others, can be found in vocabularies.
In order to save room, we will report the piedmontese voices in the order: masculine singular, feminine singular, masculine plural, feminine plural, unless otherwise noted.

English Piedmontese Examples
another one, other ones utr, utra, utri, utre 1 Take another = Pjne n'utr
as much, as many autërtant, autërtanta, autërtanti, autërtante I took three apples and she took as many =
=Mi i l'hai pij tre pom e chila a l'ha pijne autërtanti
each, each one a pr'un, a pr'un-a, --- , --- (only singular) 2 We have three pieces each = I l'oma tr tch a pr'un
each one ognidun, ognidun-a, --- , --- (only singular) Each one can do it = Ognidun a peul flo
each, everyone minca un, minca un-a, --- , --- (only singular) Everyone knows that = Minca un a s ln
aynbody, anyone quaidun, quaidun-a, --- , --- (only singular) Anyone can understand? = Quaidun peul-lo cap?
somebody, someone quaidun, quaidun-a, --- , --- (only singular) Someone can understand = Quaidun a peul cap
somebody, someone quaicadun, quaicadun-a, --- , --- (only singular) Someone can understand = Quaicadun a peul cap
everything, all tut, tuta, tuti , tute I drink it all = I la bivo tuta
something quaics (invariant) Leave something for me = Lassa quaics për mi
anything quaics (invariant) Have you left something for me? = L'has-to lassame quaics?
whoever chionque (invariant) Whoever can enter = Chionque a peul intr
whatever qualonque (invariant) A good wine cannot be whatever =
= An bon vin a peul nen esse qualonque
everybody, all --- , --- , tuti, tute (only plural) Everybody go there = Tuti a van l
none, no one gnun , gnun-a , gnun, gnun-e There were none = A-i na j'ero gnun-e
nothing gnente (invariant) Nothing produces nothing = Gnente a produv gnente
(so) much, (so) many tant, tanta, tanti, tante Have you some ticket? Yes I've so many =
= It l'has quich bijet?, i i 'n' n'hai tanti
(quite) a lot divers, diversa, diversi, diverse Have you some ticket? Yes I've a lot =
= It l'has quich bijet?, i i 'n' n'hai diversi
(quite) a lot vire (invariant) Have you some ticket? Yes I've a lot =
= It l'has quich bijet?, i i 'n' n'hai vire
so much, such a lot tant, tanta, tanti, tante3 It costs so much= a costa tant
too,toomuch, too many trp, trpa, trpi, trpe Have you stamps? Yes I have even too many =
= L'has-to 'd franoboj? É i 'n n' hai fin-a trpi
how much, how many quant, quanta, quanti, quante I don't know how many they are = I sai nen quanti ch'a son
little, few pch, pca, pchi, pche You have a lot of books, I have just few = It l'has tanti lber, Mi i 'n n'hai mach pchi
same stss, stssa, stss, stsse This book is not the same = Sto l'ber a l' nen lë stss
istss, istssa, istss, istsse This book is not the same = Sto l'ber a l' nen l'istss
the same midem, midema, midem, mideme This is the same I found yesterday = Cost a l' 'l midem ch'i l'hai trov jr
the same medsim, medsima, medsim, medsime This is the same I found yesterday = Cost a l' 'l medsim ch'i l'hai trov jr


We note first that in this group of pronouns there are some exceptions to the rule of invariance at plural of masculine nouns. Some of these pronouns, as it also happened for the correspondin adjectives, have the masculine plural ending by an added "i". It is necessary to pay attention, since that is not true for all.
Note 1) - The pronoun "utr" usually is n'utr, n'utra" at singular and "d'utri, d'utre" at plural (i.e. it acts as a partitive).
Note 2) - In a distributive sense.
Note 3) - There are many idioms for this indefinite pronoun (and also for the corresponding adjective) like "un mugg" (literally "a heap"), "na patela" (literally "a blow"), etc. (see the section: piedmontese idioms).






argentera
The mount
   Argentera

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. (photo B. Garmondi)
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